Leo Martin in Interview
Leo Martin studied criminal sciences and worked for ten years for a major German intelligence agency. During this time, he uncovered sensitive cases of organized crime. Today, he shares his knowledge and experiences through lectures and books. He recently was a guest at WIFI Salzburg. The "Salzburger Wirtschaft" interviewed him:
You worked undercover as a secret agent for ten years. What were your main tasks there?
Leo Martin: As an operative in the field, my task was to recruit informants from the organized crime milieu. This involved classic areas of crime such as drug trafficking, arms smuggling, and prostitution. I mainly dealt with people from the CIS countries. My job was to find individuals willing to provide secret insider information to law enforcement authorities.
You have been trained to analyze people, their behavior, and motives in seconds. How does that work?
Leo Martin: When I want to persuade others to join my projects, two basic needs are essential: the need for security must be satisfied, meaning the other person must know 100% where they stand with me. What do I stand for, what do I not. What is acceptable to me, what is not. And that's where trust comes in. The principle here is: "What can you trust when dealing with me." Because that is the only thing that gives the other person the security to make their own decisions. Am I willing to open up to another person, let them get close to me, reveal personal information, or do I just put on a friendly smile and mentally check out. The second basic need is for appreciation and recognition, meaning respectful communication on an equal footing, especially in conflict situations. Most people fail because they cannot differentiate behavior from the person. In essence, it's about how I can increase my influence on others. This does not involve manipulation or dirty tricks. What matters is that my counterpart fully utilizes the scope of action they have for me.
You are often referred to as the "German James Bond" - why?
Leo Martin: This comes from my motto inspired by 007: "If you want to win people over, you have to stir them, not shake them." This means that pressure and coercion don't work, nor do tricks, and sometimes not even rational arguments. I have to win people over on a relational level and appeal to them emotionally.
What advice do you give to entrepreneurs who want to conduct successful business conversations?
Leo Martin: Before getting into the matter, the relational level must be right. In a conversation, there are clear signs that show me the relational level is right: From the moment the other person starts bringing up their own topics or showing genuine emotions, I know the relational level is right. The decision to engage in proposals in a conversation is primarily an emotional matter, secondarily a rational one. What we think, we radiate. Therefore, consciously focus on the positive aspects of the other person - especially when they don't make it easy for you. Don't act impulsively on the first impulse. This way, you appear emotionally attractive. If people like you, they support you. If they don't like you, they look for faults. How do you uncover if someone is lying? As a criminal investigator, I cannot recognize a lie per se. But I do sense the pressure caused by a lie. This could be evasive or overly fixed gaze, a rushed response behavior where the answer comes out before the question is even finished, or delayed response behavior. What remains is a gut feeling that something is off. This is where I, as a criminal investigator, take a closer look.
How many identities did you have in your undercover operations?
Leo Martin: Yes, there were quite a few. This posed some challenges. We are not actors in intelligence. Despite our legends, we had to appear authentic to our counterparts. It always had to create a consistent overall picture. If it didn't, alarm bells would immediately go off, and the other person would shut down. Therefore, in intelligence work, the best legend is the one closest to the truth. That is, a legend must be cleverly constructed, and the name is actually just an accessory.
